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Date:	12/14/99 11:15:20 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Wednesday, December 15 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1496<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Australia under orbital bombardment<BR>
Re: Full auto Pilgramage Pics...and DITZIE?!?! (Way OT and possible Flamebait)<BR>
Re: technology advances<BR>
Woomera Fun<BR>
Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
Re: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
RE: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
Re: Full auto Pilgramage Pics...and DITZIE?!?!<BR>
Gossip and porno and journalism in the 3I<BR>
Re:  Dueling Banjos in the 3I<BR>
RE: Vampires<BR>
Re: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
Re: Full auto Pilgramage Pics<BR>
Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Starship re-payments<BR>
Re: technology advances<BR>
Re: Superpowers & Photosynthesis<BR>
Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Starship re-payments<BR>
Re: MING'S REVENGE<BR>
Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Starship re-payments<BR>
Re: Gossip and porno and journalism in the 3I<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 18:19:29 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Australia under orbital bombardment<BR>
<BR>
> At 11:20 AM 12/14/1999 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
> >Check this out:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >http://www.cnn.com/1999/TECH/space/12/10/australia.meteorite.ap/<BR>
> ><BR>
> >"Australian Authorities: Meteorite Likely Damaged Resevoir"<BR>
><BR>
> The consenceous on rec.arts.sf.fandom was that when dug up, the meteor<BR>
will<BR>
> have an inscription in Martian reading: "Well, how do you like having<BR>
> probes dropped on your heads?"<BR>
<BR>
The missing Mars probe was one of the possible causes discussed on TV over<BR>
here when it happened.<BR>
<BR>
A few months back we also had what was assumed to be a meteor re-enter and<BR>
blow up in plain sight.of much of the notthern part of country  At least two<BR>
people took videos of it.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> --<BR>
><BR>
> Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 00:20:52 -0500<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Full auto Pilgramage Pics...and DITZIE?!?! (Way OT and possible Flamebait)<BR>
<BR>
Terry types out:<BR>
 >Columbine (sp?): the preps were outsiders and killed member<BR>
 >of groups from which they were either excluded or feared, the popular<BR>
 >athletes and the born again Christians.<BR>
<BR>
According to the recently reviewed video tapes the two perps made prior to <BR>
generally carrying cranky, they didn't really target anyone in specific, as <BR>
the newsies put forth, they were out to get everyone.  Equal opportunity <BR>
psychos it seems.<BR>
<BR>
They wanted Spielberg to direct the movie version....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
           You sound reasonable ... time to up my medication<BR>
                  http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:46:01 -0800<BR>
From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: technology advances<BR>
<BR>
Leonard wrote:<BR>
> The British Interplanetary Society has a *long*<BR>
> record of this sort of<BR>
> thing. Back in the 60s or 70s they designed a<BR>
> *interstellar* probe<BR>
> mission. One that was doable with then current tech.<BR>
><BR>
> Look up "Daedulus".<BR>
<BR>
Current tech is straining it a little; Daedalus had a<BR>
laser fusion drive; we can't even build a laser fusion setup<BR>
that gets out more energy when its on the ground filling<BR>
several entire buildings.<BR>
<BR>
And Daedalus was automated in spite of a hundred-year<BR>
mission duration; NASA can't even build something autonamous<BR>
that can manage to land on Mars...<BR>
<BR>
Bruce<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:59:13 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Woomera Fun<BR>
<BR>
Crazy Mike Hughes wrote:<BR>
> Do any AUST's remember crazy Joh from QLD with his<BR>
> plans for the world's<BR>
> biggest spaceport at Cape York?<BR>
<BR>
It kept going after crazy Joh, from what I remember,<BR>
but got bogged down in land rights issues, ie the<BR>
local aborignes didn't like the idea of bloody great<BR>
rocket stages crashing on their ancient burial<BR>
grounds, or something. Officially it's still going as<BR>
a project, though.<BR>
Anyhow, essentially it's been decided that sea<BR>
launches from old oil rigs (thanks to Boeing) are a<BR>
much better idea.<BR>
<BR>
articles online:<BR>
(18/4/91), on the developments with regard to<BR>
ecological and land rights concerns<BR>
http://nativenet.uthscsa.edu/archive/nl/91a/0095.html <BR>
(18/6/98), on its being canned because of the sea<BR>
launches  <BR>
http://pidp.ewc.hawaii.edu/pireport/1998/june/06-19-01.htm<BR>
<BR>
(11/98), on the new proposal to use some offshore<BR>
Indian Ocean islands of Australia instead<BR>
http://www.engaust.com.au/ea/1198coverstory.html<BR>
<BR>
(3/98), on the aussie govt, typically for a<BR>
government, passing laws to cover something that's not<BR>
happened yet, and may never happen (ie building a<BR>
launch facility)<BR>
http://www.crcss.csiro.au/spin/spin78/SPIN7802.htm<BR>
<BR>
(2/99), on a new go at a Queensland site<BR>
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s19241.htm<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Any aussies here remember the "Multi-Function Polis"<BR>
idea? (The Japanese were supposedly going to build a<BR>
high-tech city of science, wandered from state to<BR>
state wondering where to put it...) Any wild idea went<BR>
(raspberry sound)<BR>
<BR>
If I had my way, when the Chinese arrive on the moon<BR>
in about ten years, they'd find an aussie in a bright<BR>
blue spacesuit waiting for them, with cold beers and<BR>
hot snags for them.<BR>
<BR>
We got the technology, why not? It's no crazier or<BR>
more expensive than hosting the Olympics!<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:05:18 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>I just watched "Raiders of the Lost Ark" again last night. Anybody got<BR>
>>it on tape? If so, what's the serial number stenciled on the crate with<BR>
>>the Ark in that last scene? The *exact* text of the labeling would be<BR>
>>nice too.<BR>
><BR>
> From what I remember of the cinema version the very last scene, prehaps<BR>
> after the credits, shows the crate with the US stencil being burnt off from<BR>
> the inside as if to say "You are not even the goods guys." (no offence).<BR>
<BR>
I don't recall that from the theater version. Then again, that may be a<BR>
difference between the US and foreign releases.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:51:15<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
<BR>
At 06:15 PM 12/14/1999 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>--- Jesse DeGraff the gun-toting maniac wrote:<BR>
<BR>
*one* of the gun-toting maniacs, thank you!<BR>
><BR>
>Anyone else seen advertised "Babes With Guns"? It's a<BR>
>video of bikini-clad lovelies firing at full-auto<BR>
>somewhere in the California desert... <BR>
<BR>
There are dozens of these tapes, some of which omit the bikini.  Tells you<BR>
something about the average Soldier of Fortune reader...<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry   Templar Agent at Large.<BR>
gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
<BR>
TravGeekCode: <BR>
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i<BR>
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da<BR>
         <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:53:01<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
<BR>
At 07:09 PM 12/14/1999 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Hehe, who said "gun toting maniac" was an insult? I<BR>
>was in the army, myself, always enjoyed carrying the<BR>
>M-60. A fellow gunner said, "they say the average life<BR>
>of a machine-gunnere in combat is - what? 40 seconds?<BR>
>- but so what? it's 40 seconds of glory!"<BR>
<BR>
40 seconds is also about the time needed to blow through a single 100-round<BR>
belt.  Coincidence?  I think not!<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
<BR>
TML Great Old One<BR>
Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse<BR>
Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:02:12<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Full auto Pilgramage Pics...and DITZIE?!?!<BR>
<BR>
At 06:28 PM 12/14/1999 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Finland, what a glorious nations, where the most<BR>
>repressive gun laws are noise pollution laws! Wow! And<BR>
>yet their murder rate is lower than California's? I<BR>
>wonder why?<BR>
<BR>
Not to put a damper on this, but you also have to make some comparisons.<BR>
<BR>
                Finland           California<BR>
Pop Density   40.6 sq/mi          190.8sq/mi<BR>
Ethnic Mix    Finn 93% Swede 6%   White 69%, Black 7%, Asian 10%, Latino 25%<BR>
<BR>
So you have a much more homogenous population spread far more thinly.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:08:10 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Gossip and porno and journalism in the 3I<BR>
<BR>
Mark urbin wrote:<BR>
> According to the recently reviewed video tapes the<BR>
> two perps made prior to <BR>
> generally carrying cranky, they didn't really target<BR>
> anyone in specific, as <BR>
> the newsies put forth, they were out to get<BR>
> everyone.  Equal opportunity <BR>
> psychos it seems.<BR>
> <BR>
> They wanted Spielberg to direct the movie<BR>
> version....<BR>
<BR>
A friend of mine recently put it to me that gossip was<BR>
the source of language, and came before it. After all,<BR>
it doesn't take more than a chimp's brain to be able<BR>
to see a mating couple, nudge your buddy on the<BR>
shoulder and point with a grin. Gossip, he said, was<BR>
the source of language and the mortar of society,<BR>
since it allows you to improve your social position,<BR>
be aware of changes in political structures, etc etc.<BR>
Nowadays, he said, "gossip is the herpes of language.<BR>
Almost everybody has it, and you can't get rid of it."<BR>
<BR>
That was such a cool little phrase, I've been dying to<BR>
have a chance to use it since. The relevance is that<BR>
journalists are a scourge of humanity, and deal only<BR>
in gossip, but irrelevant gossip. Since it's<BR>
irrelevant, they have to make interesting, and so,<BR>
well, make it up.<BR>
<BR>
And a couple racist psychos they think is more<BR>
interesting than a couple psychos.<BR>
<BR>
So, I repeat my ObTrav: what will tabloid journalism<BR>
look like in the 3I? Will paparazzi chase the<BR>
Emperor's family, photographing them wandering about<BR>
naked on their space yachts, speculating if they're<BR>
gay, etc? What will be too shocking to print or show<BR>
on holovision?<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 00:08:13 -0600<BR>
From: Dan Roseberry <rosebee@troi.csw.net><BR>
Subject: Re:  Dueling Banjos in the 3I<BR>
<BR>
Michael wrote:<BR>
> Ob Trav: In the Spinward Marches, is there a system<BR>
> that the rest of the sector regards as a genetic joke?<BR>
<BR>
hehehehehe<BR>
"I have so many names" --Al Pacino, The Devils Advocate<BR>
<BR>
Forboldn for sure. Vanejen <long pause> maybe <shrug><BR>
Knorbes (?) 3I might encourage people thinking that place<BR>
is a joke so they'll stay away from there. IMTU Knorbes<BR>
and Arkadia definetly laughed at, but for different reasons<BR>
hehehehehe<BR>
<BR>
Dan Roseberry (plop101) Hot Springs Arkansas<BR>
"We don't have any Black Globe Generators--<BR>
They've taken them all to New York!"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:10:55 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: RE: Vampires<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Peter said:<BR>
>- - the idea that  vampires  have  no  reflection  is  extended  to<BR>
>  include all recording/transmission mediums ("surveilance  is  a<BR>
>  bitch")<BR>
<BR>
I played a vampire in GURPS once. Makes it hell to get into malls, the damn<BR>
electric-eye automatic door openers don't SEE you...  ;-)<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:13:36 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
<BR>
Doug the cynic wrote:<BR>
> There are dozens of these tapes, some of which omit<BR>
> the bikini.  Tells you<BR>
> something about the average Soldier of Fortune<BR>
> reader...<BR>
<BR>
Well, I must be different from the average, then, I<BR>
never sent off for one. But then, I never sent off for<BR>
a copy of Das Kapital from the back of International<BR>
Socialist Weekly, either (I like to read the stuff<BR>
from all political extremes, just to give me a<BR>
balanced viewpoint)<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:02:24 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Full auto Pilgramage Pics<BR>
<BR>
...<BR>
> Germany invaded Russia during the _summer_<BR>
<BR>
  Give the huns credit for not being totally clueless* as to the state<BR>
of the Russian road-net. <BR>
<BR>
  *hmm, is there a UPP slot for "natives degree of inherent cluelessness"?<BR>
<BR>
  As for the other, one might conclude that Finns and Swiss can <BR>
be trusted with automatic weapons...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:38:38 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Starship re-payments<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Eris reddoch writes:<BR>
><BR>
>> Yes, but not *that* good. <g>  0.33% is a periodic interest and you<BR>
>> are using monthly payments. The *yearly* rate (12 months) is 0.33*12,<BR>
>> or ~4%.  And if you reduce the balance by a 20% downpayment up front<BR>
>> the rate jumps to ~5%.<BR>
><BR>
> This in general implies several things:<BR>
> 1)  inflation is very low in the Imperium.  Canonical suggestion is<BR>
> that it is somehow magically zero due to definition of money.<BR>
> 2)  starships are considered 'low risk' loans; the rate the bank makes on <BR>
> its loan is roughly equal to the interest rate (5%) - the failure rate.  <BR>
> Thus, if ships fail at more than 5% per year banks lose money by<BR>
> making loans.  For commercial banks, it's unlikely they want less<BR>
> than 3% return on investment, which suggests that the loss rates for<BR>
> ships (including pirates, incidental damage, theft, etc) is less than<BR>
> 2% per year.  It also implies that merchants either don't go bankrupt<BR>
> very often, or that ships have a very low rate of depreciation.<BR>
<BR>
I'd go with the low rate of depreciation. You *don't* give 40 year<BR>
loans on equipment that depreciates noticably over that period. <BR>
<BR>
This goes with my contention that there ought to be 100 and even 200<BR>
year old ships in service. If the TL goes up, they get shipped of to<BR>
areas that are still at the lower TL. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:44:44 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: technology advances<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Tue, 14 Dec 1999, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> I *wondered* why I never heard of Woomera being used for anything. That<BR>
>> *really* sucks. Shit, it wouldn't have hurt to just mothball the launch<BR>
>> sites. Even "Abandoned in Place" would have been better.<BR>
><BR>
> !!!!!!!!!!!<BR>
><BR>
> Did *Leonard* just say "shit"?  <BR>
><BR>
> He's been taken over by the uninhibited mind-raping Zhos!  Imperial values<BR>
> are going out the window!  The rocks are starting to accelerate!  It's the<BR>
> End Times! Virus is on its way! Guard the Emperor!<BR>
<BR>
Kenji, <BR>
<BR>
Be nice. Or Mistress Olga will quit letting you visit the R&D section<BR>
of the dungeon. :-)<BR>
<BR>
ps. Where did you want the 55 gallon drum of lube and the pump sent?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:55:48 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Superpowers & Photosynthesis<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
>>>Chlorophyll is the most important photosynthetic pigment<BR>
>>>found here on Terra, but there are other pigments involved<BR>
>>>in many species.  The various colours that leaves take on<BR>
>>>in the fall, in temperate climes, are caused by these<BR>
>>>pigments.<BR>
>>Those pigments are always there, but they *don't* take part in<BR>
>>photosynthesis. <BR>
><BR>
>         From Life, the science of biology (Purves et al, 1992):<BR>
>         "Here we discuss pigments that play roles in<BR>
>         photosynthesis... Of these, the most important are the<BR>
>         chlorophylls." "...all photosynthetic organisms possess<BR>
>         accessory pigments that absorb photons intermediate in<BR>
>         energy between the red and blue and then transfer a<BR>
>         portion of the energy to chlorophyll..."  Interestingly<BR>
>         enough, while all known Terran photosynthetic organisms<BR>
>         have accessory pigments (such as carotenoids and<BR>
>         phycobilins), not all of them have chlorophyll.<BR>
>         Photosynthetic halobacteria use a derivative of retinol,<BR>
>         called bacteriorhodopsin, rather than chlorophyll.<BR>
<BR>
Ok, that tells me something I didn't know. *But*, it also says that<BR>
they *transfer* the energy to Chlorophyll. My guess would be that they<BR>
act like the phosphors in fluorescent tubes and absorb certain<BR>
wavelengths and re-emit them at others more suitable.<BR>
<BR>
So they *aid* photosynthesis, but don't do it. The bacteriorhodopsin is<BR>
a different matter. <BR>
<BR>
>>>I would expect to see photosynthetic structures<BR>
>>>of different colours, depending on the wavelengths of light<BR>
>>>that arrive.<BR>
>>Wavelength isn't as important as you'd think. Remember,<BR>
>>chlorophyll is green because it *reflects* green light. And<BR>
>>that's practically at the peak of Sol's emmission spectrm (ie<BR>
>>the strongest single wavelngth in the mix).<BR>
><BR>
>         Peak wavelength of absorption for chlorophyll a is about<BR>
>         430 nm (blue-violet) with a lesser peak at 670 nm (red),<BR>
>         for chlorophyll b the peaks are at 455 nm (blue-green)<BR>
>         and 640 nm (red-orange) respectively.  The overall <BR>
>         perception of light that is not absorbed (including <BR>
>         primarily violet, green, yellow, orange, and red light)<BR>
>         is green.  Accessory pigments absorb light effectively<BR>
>         at other wavelengths, but green light is absorbed less<BR>
>         than most other visible wavelengths.  The net result is<BR>
>         that photosynthetic machinery is better at using some<BR>
>         wavelengths than others: this varies by species, but in<BR>
>         a water plant (/Anacharis/) efficiency is highest for about<BR>
>         430 nm (deep blue) and 680 nm (red-orange), with a low<BR>
>         around 550 nm (yellow-green), and it almost ceases at<BR>
>         about 725 nm (near infra-red).  Since the photosynthetic<BR>
>         machinery depends so much on the wavelength of available<BR>
>         light, it is fair to say that wavelength is important.<BR>
<BR>
What I meant was that it's more important that there be enough energy<BR>
at wavelengths the pigment can use, than what the overal frequency<BR>
composition is, and it's *especially* not that important where the<BR>
emission peak is. <BR>
<BR>
*Efficiency* at converting available light into sugar is more important<BR>
than sensitivity to specific wavelengths.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:08:11 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Starship re-payments<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 02:51 AM 12/14/99 PST, you wrote:<BR>
>>In mail you write:<BR>
>><BR>
>>> How are starship payments figured? In the book it says (from memory...) <BR>
> its<BR>
>>> 20% down payment plus 1/240th every month for 480 months giving a total<BR>
>>> return of 240% to the bank.<BR>
>>><BR>
>>> What RL model is this using? Is there a handy formula for the effect of<BR>
>>> differing years or if extra is paid?<BR>
>><BR>
>>Check out formulas for calculating loans at differing interest rates.<BR>
>>Plug in the principal (cost of ship minus the down payment), the term<BR>
>>(40 years), the payment interval (monthly) and solve for the interest<BR>
>>rate. I expect that you'll be surprised how *low* it is. The more<BR>
>>payments you make (actually the longer the period you make them over)<BR>
>>the more that interest eats up. Your early payments can be 90% or more<BR>
>>interests with only the remainder actually reducing the principal. <BR>
<BR>
>         <BR>
>         Given a random sampling of loan values and tweaking appropriately,<BR>
> for example:<BR>
><BR>
>         480     number of payments<BR>
>         100     loan value  (MCr)<BR>
>         0.42    payement  (MCr)<BR>
><BR>
>         I get a result of ~0.33% Interest Rate.  If you work on a 1%<BR>
> interest rate, you wind up with payments of MCr1.01 for the above loan.  For<BR>
> 7% (a good house mortgage) you get MCr7 per payment.<BR>
><BR>
>         Looks like the Imperium is *VERY* in favor of trade between planets,<BR>
> to the point of subsidizing interest rates.<BR>
<BR>
I think you forgot the 20% down payment mentioned above.<BR>
<BR>
A=p*(1+(r/n)^nt   compound interest formula (I found it on one of my<BR>
		  math "cheat sheets")<BR>
A=total amount paid<BR>
p=principal (80% of price in our case)<BR>
r=rate of interest (%/yr)<BR>
t=time (number of years)<BR>
n=number of periods per year<BR>
<BR>
A=(80 MCr/240)*480=160 MCr<BR>
p=80 MCr<BR>
r=???<BR>
t=40<BR>
n=12<BR>
<BR>
160=80*(1+(r/12))^480<BR>
<BR>
Obviously, (1+(r/12))^480 must equal 2.<BR>
2=(1+(r/12))^480<BR>
take the 480th root<BR>
root480(2)=1+(r/12)<BR>
root480(2)-1=r/12<BR>
12*(root480(2)-1)=r<BR>
r is approximately 1.7%<BR>
<BR>
Alas, this *doesn't* jibe with the idea that each 10 years of payments<BR>
gets an additional 20% of the ship paid for. So it looks like the<BR>
Imperium uses *simple* interest on ship purchase.<BR>
<BR>
Ok, let's try *that*.<BR>
<BR>
(I'll skip the calculation)<BR>
<BR>
r=2.5%<BR>
<BR>
That's a *bit* better. <BR>
<BR>
So for simple interest, here are the relevant formulas:<BR>
<BR>
I=interest paid (total)<BR>
P=principal (amount borrowed)<BR>
S=total amount paid (I+P)<BR>
r=interest rate (5% = 0.05)<BR>
t=time expressed in years<BR>
p=monthly payment<BR>
<BR>
I=Prt<BR>
<BR>
S=P+Prt<BR>
<BR>
p=(P+Prt)/(t*12)<BR>
<BR>
So if you pay extra at some point *and the mortage allows it* then you<BR>
can recalculate payments from the above.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:11:39 -0800<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: Re: MING'S REVENGE<BR>
<BR>
Just a reminder that this all does have something to do with Traveller<BR>
(aside from being incredibly funny).  There will still be a Traveller<BR>
Board Gaming meet in San Jose this Saturday starting at 11:00.  Email me<BR>
for directions and info.<BR>
<BR>
Kristian<BR>
<BR>
"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> The Government of Mongo wishes to announce that the leader of the<BR>
> Outworld Coalition Forces shall be unable to prosecute the war on 18<BR>
> December 1999 and that the leader of the Imperial Forces expects to be<BR>
> unavailable as well.  The Fifth Frontier War shall accordingly remain on<BR>
> hold until further notice, with hostilities expected to recommence on a<BR>
> mutually convenient date in January 2000.<BR>
> <BR>
> In the interim, the Government of Mongo wishes to remind readers of the<BR>
> TML that Mongo is a leading producer of fine smoking products, leather<BR>
> apparel and equipment, and decorative (but very strong) chains, and<BR>
> hopes that you will consider items produced by Mongo artisans in your<BR>
> gift-giving plans.<BR>
> <BR>
> Hail Ming!<BR>
> <BR>
> --Glenn M. Goffin, Esq.<BR>
> Honorary Vice-Consul of the Planet Mongo<BR>
> San Francisco Megalopolis/Terra/Sol/Solomani Rim<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 18:08:03 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Starship re-payments<BR>
<BR>
>I'd go with the low rate of depreciation. You *don't* give 40 year<BR>
>loans on equipment that depreciates noticably over that period.<BR>
><BR>
>This goes with my contention that there ought to be 100 and even 200<BR>
>year old ships in service. If the TL goes up, they get shipped of to<BR>
>areas that are still at the lower TL.<BR>
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
<BR>
    Or upgraded with higher tech components, are you SURE thats a tech level<BR>
12 frieghter your about to attack? Maybe the only the hull is.<BR>
    Jim L.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:11:33 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Gossip and porno and journalism in the 3I<BR>
<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> That was such a cool little phrase, I've been dying to<BR>
> have a chance to use it since. The relevance is that<BR>
> journalists are a scourge of humanity, and deal only<BR>
> in gossip, but irrelevant gossip. Since it's<BR>
> irrelevant, they have to make interesting, and so,<BR>
> well, make it up.<BR>
><BR>
> And a couple racist psychos they think is more<BR>
> interesting than a couple psychos.<BR>
<BR>
While I despise the television news for a variety of reasons, and while the<BR>
did saturate the airwaves with a hell of a lot of misinformation and things<BR>
they made up in the newsroom during Columbine[1], I don't think that the<BR>
blame can be placed entirely on the media for getting the facts wrong. They<BR>
were relying on first-hand accounts from the students and there were a hell<BR>
of a lot of things that the students said which apparently didn't happen.<BR>
<BR>
[1] MSNBC had the most absurd coverage. When the term "goth" began to get<BR>
bandied around by the students at Columbine, the MSNBC reporters ran...<BR>
right to their dictionary. There was a hysterical piece up on MSNBC's<BR>
website about how goth was a movement influenced strongly by the brutal<BR>
Gothic barbarian tribes of the dark ages, and how the goths hold Gothic<BR>
architecture in high regard.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1496<BR>
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